.jpg) | Sherri PorterUsername: Sherri |
Location
Washington State, USA
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RetailerCompany
CostcoComments
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Recycling vs Composting
Hello, Bernard! I'm curious - why do you think citizens and their community governments will be better about composting than they are about recycling? (I'm referring to getting citizens to sort properly, to dispose of packaging appropriately when they're out of their homes, etc. And to communities establishing composting facilities and facilitating their use with home/curbside pick-up and by locating and servicing appropriate collection bins in public environments.)
Affecting REAL Change?
I'm not yet convinced that any of the alternatives we're talking about will really affect change in a big way. Maybe they will - but I haven't seen/read compelling evidence of it so far. I think the alternatives we talk about give those of us involved in the effort an opportunity to feel better about the packaging we advocate. It gives us the ability to defend our judgement. But I'm not convinced it truly affects real, long-lasting change because it doesn't address what's really at the heart of the issue anymore than it helps us define sustainability in other than abstract or esoteric terms. All of our efforts are costing a lot of $$. What if our organizations instead spent that money on how consumers dispose of packaging? Partner with communities where we operate to help them start/increase/improve reclamation and recycling programs - curbside pickup, placing and picking up recycling containers in open/public spaces like parks and shopping centers, etc. Sponser campaigns to educate consumers in the facts (those that at least most of us can agree on - things like the fact that all petroleum-based plastic is made from a byproduct; that the majority of packaging paper is also made from a byproduct; how the success of 'sustainable' packaging really depends on consumers, etc). I'm sure we can come up with a myriad of good ideas. Sucess will give for-profit organizations the good press/reputation they're seeking, and will inevitably drive the packaging decision-making WE are currently struggling with. But this way, we'd be working WITH, and hearing from, the people who actually have the power - the consumers.
Isn't Using Waste A Primary Objective?
The LCA's I've seen for petroleum-based plastic include the impact of drilling oil/natural gas. But we drill solely to provide fuel, and use a byproduct (waste) from fuel refining to make plastic. Even if we stop using petro-fuels entirely, we won't drill to source raw material for plastic - it's FAR too expensive. (Certainly for packaging, market demand would lead us to less-expensive alternatives.) So it seems to me that LCA's for petro-plastic packaging should "start" at the point that the byproduct is made available.
Are Recycling And Biodegradation
I've been looking into additives for petroleum-based plastics that significantly speed up the rate of biodegradion, and that do not reduce or interfere with the plastic's ability to be recycled and reused. So far, the only folks who will validate that packaged using any of the additives can be labeled as "biodegradable" work for the companies making the additive. Another interesting note, all of the "biodegrable plastics" companies I've talked with offer unsolicited negative feedback about their competitors products. The "biodegradable plastics" industry has been trying to get off the ground for well over a decade. If they still can't achieve it today, in what I think of as an optimal market for their product, perhaps it's not the right answer. Recycling has the same issue - this has got to be the best market oppportunity ever in the U.S. for recycling plastics - but we're still recycling only a small percentage, and basically only the same plastics we were recycling before. 100% of all petroleum-based plastics are made from a byproduct of fuel production. As the fuel industry strives to develop replacement options, perhaps we should attempt to make 'new' plastics from the byproducts of the new fuels they're developing? In the meantime, why not havest the rich, latent fuel energy in discarded petroleum-based plastics (those that aren't already being recycled)? This way, we continue to create new, highly-useful packaging from readily-available refuse/byproduct, and at the end if its life turn it into much-needed energy, reducing our dependency on coal, etc.
Hello, Mike! I'm with
Hello, Mike! I'm with Costco. (I've updated my profile so you'll see that in future posts as well.)
Is EPS Too Efficient?
Mike, I feel for you! My company can't find an alternative to EPS that's truly "better" in the big picture, either. EPS is just too good a product, I guess. There's VERY little plastic/resin in it for its finished size - a key reason it hasn't developed a viable recycling stream. A lot of EPS touches food (as fresh meat trays, for example) so we don't want it in curbside recycling bins and MRF's - another hindrance to recycling. It's lightweight, so it's highly visible as litter - and it's durable, so it doesn't degrade or collapse. It's inexpensive, and performs better than its alternatives - nothing our company has looked at comes close the performance of EPS, even at 50% or more EPS's cost. (The EPS industry did exactly what all industries strive for - they made an excellent product, at an excellent value.)
Negative Byproducts of Biodegration via Additives
I learned recently that when we speed up the biodegration of plastics through use of additives, it produces carbon dioxide and methane - both of which are greenhouse gases. (Interestingly, plastic that biodegrades naturally seems to consume carbon dioxide and methane!) We discard a lot of plastic that seems unlikely to find a cost-effective recycling stream. Harvesting the rich, latent petroleum energy from those plastics (through incineration) seems to reap a benefit with little envirnomental impact. (I believe Indianapolis incinerates plastics and harvests the energy, with no negative affect on air quality, for example.)
Use of Waste
Seems to the core issues are having enough raw material to produce packaging that consumers are prepared to buy; and responsible disposition of the packaging when we're through with it. Is there a real danger that we will run out of packaging paper? Virgin material is made from a byproduct of lumber production. North American forest lands are growing in size. I'm not suggesting we stop recyling, but why not send our used packaging paper to Asia, where they have newer recycling machinery that's kinder to the enviroment than the older machinery here in the U.S? If Asia can't use all of it, why not clean-incinerate the rest (including food-contaminated packaging like pizza boxes) and harvest the energy as power? Plastics are also made from a waste product. (We drill oil to make fuel, and some of the waste product is used to product plastics.) The variety of plastics materials is ever-growing - just sorting all that could be too expensive. Why not recycle the packaging that has the best ROI, and clean-incinerate the rest as a source of energy? (Plastics are still petroleum, so they have a lot of latent energy potential.)
Packaging from Waste
I was surprised to learn that both virgin plastics and virgin packaging paper are made from waste products to begin with. Oil is drilled to refine it into fuel. The refining process leaves a fair amount of waste product, and we use some of that to make plastics. Logging occurs to produce lumber. That process also leaves waste product, some of which we use to make packaging paper. (Additionally, in North America, our forest lands are actually growing in size.) Both of these facts seem rather difficult to run across, despite the ever-increasing volume of discussions regarding sustainability. So I thought I'd share them with all of you in case you haven't run across them already.
Packaging from Waste
Isn't packaging paper (such as corrugated) made from a waste product to begin with? My understanding is we log for lumber, and that some of the waste product of lumber production is used to produce corrugated. I'm also hearing that in the U.S. our recycling % on corrugated is already extremely high (upwards of 80%). There's no virgin material for packaging paper in Asia (where a very large % of the boxes in the U.S. are made). Selling Asia our OCC (old boxes) defrays our trade imbalance. And doesn't Asia have mostly newer recycling machinery - that on the average is better for the environment than the much older machinery here in the U.S?